Building a Better Bear411

[octothorpe]

So I started postulating in a post on greatbearmd's LJ about what it would take to make a better bear411-like site.

For easy access (ahem), I've copied (and edited) the relevant replies:

theoctothorpe ::

Let this be a lesson. Bad code hurts everybody.
I'd think you'd want:

text profile
image upload (for images)
"pals" (adding and status of)
some sort of server-side messaging (not chat)

and what I was also thinking... a private IRC server (rather than trying to do it via a webpage). You can kill the script kiddies by making sure only those with valid accounts can sign on (and each account must be validated by a human). You cal also see who's in the channel(s) on the site, rather than having to log into the IRC server.

This isn't rocket science. Is this an opportunity to make a better site?

greasybiker ::

I like profiles that have some things as defined lists - the answers may not be perfect for everyone, but that way the data is regularized - and it can all be searched. What's really insane are sites that make you fill out a profile questionnaire with a lot of those kind of questions - and then don't permit people to use them to search! Granted, being overspecific won't get you anywhere - but maybe I just want to know if there ARE any goateed uncut tops who are HIV+ and have red hair in Burbank. ;)

Oh - and there should be separate hair color answers for head hair and beard hair. ;)

The "message drop" feature should show a listing of waiting messages, unlike Bear411 that makes you deal with them in the order of arrival.

I'd suggest two lists - "pals" or "buddies" who are people you actually know/chat with, and "hot fur" - guys you think are attractive, but haven't actually worked up the nerve to approach. ;)

It's an interesting question as to whether to show a person who's been browsing his profile. Some sites do it (bikermen.com, bearkink.net), others don't.

I like the idea of a private IRC server; I also like Jabber, but many of the clients aren't very good and I'm not sure about how well it does the kind of group conversation that IRC does so well. Would you let users set up their own channels, or would there be a pre-set selection?

theoctothorpe ::

Preface: I am not on Bear411, but I am on bearwww, and it too falls short in some key areas, but at least the interface doesn't get in your way. I will probably steal ideas from all over, should I decide to create this. My IA juices are always flowing.

I like the idea of the bearwww pals list, as it allows you to "rate" your pals. You can interpret this in any way you wish, but I use it to separate out those with whom I chat/know, and those who are just hot. The list is sorted by rating (highest at the top), and online status. I think the IM folks have the buddy list hammered out. In a small space, you see who is online, their name, and their icon. Some allow grouping by an arbitrary group name, but I think that's too much effort for little gain. The ratings system will keep long lists under control. Mind you, these ratings are private and personal. No one knows how you've rated someone. They aren't global, there is no global scorecard.

Yes, I agree, Bearwww and Bear411's messaging system (serial style) blows goats. It's not difficult to have a proper message page. One could even do some fancy AJAX thing and keep the page updated without having to resort to constant reloading. Oh, another thing one needs for messaging. The ability to silently ignore someone. This is key.

Search, while it sounds rather trivial, is more difficult than it seems. Not because it's difficult to code, but that it's expensive computationally. You can't really set up custom views, triggers, and stored procedures for an ad hoc query such as what you describe. That said, I, like you, wish to see *some* normalisation of the form, to facilitate accurate searches. However, I want to temper that with a short form, so people don't feel bogged down in profile creation (just let me in to get to the fresh meat!!)

The more I think about a private IRC server, the more I like the idea. The first thing that popped into my head was channel creation. I think a nice "perk" of a paid membership would be to have the ability to create (OP) your own channel. Non-paids can join any channel they want (assuming they have access –paid member channels may be locked at the OP's discretion).

greasybiker ::

Personally, I think what bogs most people down on profile creation is writing something free-form in their own words - the "pick one from a list" parts tend to go pretty quickly. I realize search is a CPU burner, but if the point is to enable men to make connections, it should be as easy as possible to find the people who one is interested in. Assuming lots of users - making people essentially drudge through everyone in their geographic area is just ... lame. Or by using ill-defined self-categorizations like "cub" or "grizzly" or the like. And ideally, one could make multiple selections - let's say that one will go for a guy with a goatee or a beard, or perhaps wants someone who's either "hairy," "very hairy" or "sasquatch" ;) [Having some torso photos to suggest what's meant by the various furriness levels wouldn't hurt... and would make the ratings a bit more regularized.]

I think your idea regarding IRC channels is excellent; that's exactly the kind of thing that I think should be a paid perk. I'm not sure if there's any way to enforce it on an IRC server, but perhaps free users could only join so many channels at once (say, two?) but a paid user could be in as many as they can keep up with.

In that vein, I think it's reasonable to give paid users the ability to upload more pictures than a free user... though how you gracefully degrade if the person lets his paid status lapse is a good question. (A personal annoyance - people who upload teeny little thumbnails instead of proper pictures. Just as there could be a maximum file size... how about a minimum pixel count to weed out the itty bitty things?) This is more a policy thing, but I do like the idea of requiring that the "main" photo on someone's profile must show their face and that they be clearly identifiable in it. Sure, I like pix of various body parts as much as the next guy - but for me, the face is most important.

Given some of the recent legal BS that's going on, how would you deal with more explicit photos? At this point, I'd almost by default go for non-US hosting for a site like this so I don't have the Republican Goon Squad on my neck because someone uploaded a picture of himself getting pissed on or the like. It's a complete annoyance, but it's something to consider.

And in a complete reversal of B411's policy - how about being completely welcoming to people listing other ways to get in touch? IM handles, a screened email address, and maybe have a few slots for "interesting web links" that would be permitted to be links to profiles on other meet & meat sites, a Yahoo! profile, or whatever.

I'm not quite sure of how much one would have to limit free users to encourage enough of them to subscribe to make the site pay for itself. At the same time, one wants lots of people to sign up - even for free - because the bigger the user base, the bigger the attraction for someone looking for a buddy, a sex partner or whatever.