Rick Warren

[octothorpe]

Dear Mr. Obama,

WTF?

I get that you're about inclusiveness. I really do. I understand that surrounding yourself with like-minded yes-men will only further ensconce you into a bubble, and there are better ways to effect change. I also think your choice for allowing Rick Warren, a right-wing evangelical christian who has actively participated in culling fundamental human rights for the citizens of the US, to speak at the inaugural invocation is a poor one. I don't believe that you've thrown gays, or women under the bus with this decision, but considering the amount of times we *have* been thrown under the bus, I am sure you understand our trepidation. You've invited Warren to speak, it's not as if you're appointing him to be part of your cabinet.

You stated in response to the initial outcry: "I think it is no secret that I am a fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans. It is something I have been consistent on and something I intend to continue to be consistent on during my presidency." Actually, you've also stated that you're not for gay marriage, but rather, civil unions. That's not equal, that's separate. Simply stating what you are for or against is meaningless when talking to groups that have continually been marginalised. Your actions tell the story, and the first chapter of this book is starting out poorly.

I hereby request that you rescind your invitation to Mr. Warren, and show us that you are an emissary of positive, progressive change.

Thank you for your time,
CM Harrington
==================

So I'm considering creating a peaceful protest march on town hall, similar to the Prop 8 marches to show Obama the people who are affected by the hatred that Warren has spread (not just gays, but women as well). Would this be of interest to anyone? If so, reply here, and we'll try to put something together. I am sure we all know some people, and those people know some people. Some of those people probably know how to organise something like this.

There is simply no need to pander to the religious right. We don't owe them anything, and we gain nothing, as their views will not change.

Thanks for your time.
The Octothorpe

Comments

[dakoopst.livejournal.com]

A minor detail, and one that doesn't really matter to the gist of your letter:

Warren isn't really right-wing, except on gay and abortion issues. The dyed-in-the-wool fundies hate him just as much as the lefties do.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

I donnow... I suppose we can quibble about the definition of "right-wing", but I wouldn't classify him as centrist, nor left-wing either. Is he an extremist? I wouldn't go that far, but I'd place him in the wing of the right.

[dakoopst.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's pure semantics and not worth the argument, really. :)

Protest march

[capy.livejournal.com]

Count us in.

[reslbear.livejournal.com]

I predicted this in March but was shouted down.

[fuzzyjay.livejournal.com]

It was more of a whisper campaign.

[erstexman.livejournal.com]

I was taken aback a bit by this choice but not entirely surprised. Obama has had several dealings with Rick Warren outside the joint forum on religious matters he appeared at with John McCain. I hope this is not an indication of any possible difficulty GLBTQ people have with an Obama administration on several levels and just is simply an olive branch that the president elect is offering to the right wing in this country.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

And that's why I am not willing to say he's throwing us under a bus. There are *far* scarier folk out there that could have been picked. However, there are also many more folk who could have been a better choice. There are many conservative Christian clergy who may not have similar views to Obama, nor to us (as if we have the same views!) who haven't actively participated in denying fundamental human rights for the citizens of the US.

[delmarmar.livejournal.com]

Create/organize your protest via Facebook. It can be amazingly far reaching and fast.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

Alas, I have no Facebook, which is ironic, as I've actually created a few FB apps for clients.

Hit them where it hurts

[vishanti.livejournal.com]

I just responded to my 'asking for cash' notes from the Obama campaign via the 'unsubscribe' link at the bottom. In the reason box I said 'The Pastor Warren betrayal'.

He can get any future money he would have gotten from me from the good pastor.

[thornyc.livejournal.com]

This was a serious misstep by the Obama campaign, and one they won't be able to talk their way out of. They've lost a great deal of credibility with the GLBT communities.

[thornyc.livejournal.com]

And the blogosphere has noticed, too. Thanks for raising your voice.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

++ insightful!

From basically nil to almost 1/3 of blogs within a week. That's saying something. Interestingly, the right-wingers are also rather upset by this, although for different reasons.

I do wonder if he'll reconsider. If he rescinds the offer, the right will label him a flip-flopper, and he'd have to admit a mistake.

[voxbaryton.livejournal.com]

Clearly, you want Obama to lose in 2012, since you think he owes the right nothing.

I thought you were an intelligent person in regards to politics. Oops. Nevermind.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic in your first sentence, but I can tell you that you're being a complete douche in the second. Next time, before you comment, I highly suggest making sure you've taken your medication as directed by your primary healthcare physician.

Obama owes the right nothing. He may choose to give the right something, but that's entirely different. It goes for the right as well. They owe Obama nothing, but can choose to give him something, should they desire.

It's in everyone's best interest to collaborate.

[voxbaryton.livejournal.com]

I have a better idea. Prove to me that you actually are interested in the well being of Gays and Lesbians and maybe American citizens across the country. Before you conduct your "protest" which will be heard by none, and will be felt by none, and benefit none, take the time to have ALL of your participants donate to the charity of their choice. As for you, since this is YOUR idea, I would like you to match their donations, and give it to a local soup kitchen for Christmas.

That way I'll know whether you're actually full of ethical substance, or just interested in MEMEMEMEME FADFADFADFAD like so much else of the ultimately useless gay protesting.

Have a nice day.

[notdefined.livejournal.com]

Whoa, I think you are misunderstanding him entirely. As far as donating money to the gay 'grassroots' organizations such as EQCA or Equal Rights Compaign or No on 8, you might as well piss in a fan. They received tens of millions in donations and did practically nothing of substance. The protests that were organized were done ad hoc, pretty much like what Christopher is advocating and in reality did do about as much if not more as the bucks doled out and wasted by the 'organizations'. Case in point, the only commercials we heard in the bay area were those of the Yes on 8 campaign and I understand that is the way it was across most of the state.

I understand and appreciate your passion but understand, Mr. Obama has made a serious miscalculation in having this bigot share the spotlight with him during one on of the most significant days in American history. Disagreeing with him will not cause him to lose the election in 2012, continuing on a similar path will. If he is trying to make a point, he is missing the point entirely. Don't get me wrong, I want this man to succeed, badly and because of that desire, and because this hits right in my back yard, I'm a bit upset with him right now as are a lot of people. He should do the right thing and withdraw the invitation. Find another way to make nice with the right, this is not the proper way NOR the proper forum.

Don't misjudge Christopher based on what you are reading into his words, he is very much interested in the well being of Gays and Lesbians, he has proven this time and again. I know this very well and I also know he is not above being hurt by arrows flung at him that should not have been.

[voxbaryton.livejournal.com]

What exactly does it take to be a "bigot"? Mere hatred of the gay community? Is this man anywhere near as evil as Fred Phelps, or any of the rest of the fundamentalist right? As has been pointed out before, Warren is actually the center, the mainstream of American protestantism.

This is my practical point to the entire gay community. The lack of self-relaization that we are on the far, far, left. From that perspective evreyone looks like a bigot.

But the truth is that Warren is no Phelps.

Only a realistic view and pragmatic tactics will yield anything constructive. Obama was right to invite him. The nation voted for Obama not on the basis that "Change" meant a left-wing coup of the right, as Christopher seems to be advocating, but rather that he would allow evreyone their right to be at the table and to speak their round.

Rick Warren leading the invocation does not give him any significant political capital. It is merely a symbolic ploy to show the right that Obama is open to their ideas. Afterall some conservative ideas are rather nice sounding. After this administration, I would love me some small-government action right now. Warren is not being given any power to set or influence policy. This not an endorsement to his particular morality or religious beliefs. It is just a selection of a mainstream minister to lead a prayer.

What is the fuss? Why, after 8 years of divisive politics, do you think that the supporters of Obama would want the same tactics but from the left instead? We don't want that. We want unity and we want people to learn how to respect eachother for what they are.

The homosexual orientation being what it is, it will for the forseeable future always be the minority, and always be vulnerable to being called perverse.

It is better to learn how to live with these people then to attempt to shout them down.

Afterall these people are going to be voting again, in 2012. I don't think Obama can afford to loose much of the middle.

[danthered.livejournal.com]

Uh...using Fred Phelps as a criterion very effectively undermines what you seem to have thought was a point.

Run along now; the grownups are talking.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

I don't have to prove anything to you.

Die in a fire.

[guiser1.livejournal.com]

I.

Heart.

You.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

I heart you as well =)

So whom do you know, and how should all this happen?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Since you're an atheist, why the fuss? He's just giving a prayer, not setting any policies, come on guys, get a grip.

[notdefined.livejournal.com]

It is not about religion, but what he represents, a bigot hiding behind his well crafted idea of "christianity according to Warren". It was people like him wrapping their hatred in what they called the word of the Lord that was responsible for Prop 8 being passed. If we remain silent and allow this individual to gain legitimacy, then who is next on their march to recreating the world in their own image?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

You know what, to me, this isn't any different when the right wingers were frothing at the mouth because Obama had the audacity to hang around a known terrorist, William Ayres. That made Obama an evil man, who didn't have the right values or decision making processes happening because of who he chose to hang with.

This is the same deal, except now gay people have *their* knockers in a twist because a man giving the prayers doesn't see eye to eye on every issue as they do.

Obama is a centrist and everything he does isn't going to make everyone happy. That's the big picture. When he appoints judges that frown on gay rights issues, I'll be more a lot more worried, but until then, I'm thrilled we have a great President elect and the Republicans are out of control. PARTAY TIME!! :-)

[notdefined.livejournal.com]

Well, I suppose we are more sensitive to it out here because we took a beating in a state where it should not have happened. This was due to the efforts of people like Warren and it burns like hot coals.

[voxbaryton.livejournal.com]

I would like to point out that I can't take much of the Prop 8 finger pointing very seriously. I honestly think that when over 50% of San Francisco failed to even vote (not making this up) then perhaps the gay community needs to re-examine the people that are leading it, then finding a new group of people (BLACKS! MORMONS! WARREN!) to make a scapegoat out of.

Uhh, a little more than 50% turned out.

[notdefined.livejournal.com]

From the City and County of San Francisco board of elections:

Official Results as of 12/2/2008 3:13 PM

Total Registration and Turnout
Registration 477,651
Total Ballots Cast 388,112 81.25 %
Election Day Reporting 209,527
Vote by Mail / Absentee Reporting 178,585


Slightly more than 50%

In total nearly 80% of all Californians turned out to vote. This was record setting for both San Francisco and California.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

And that's why I stated what I did. I don't think he's throwing us under the bus, and he's not being appointed to the Obama cabinet. This actually has nothing to do with his religiosity (he's not the only clergy in the event, and he's probably not going to be the only one offering prayer), but rather this particular fellow has engaged in actively undermining human rights of the citizens of the US monetarily, and otherwise. There are many other conservative Christians that could have been chosen who haven't actively tried to limit the rights of citizens. (On the other hand, there are many who are *FAR* scarier). One could make the argument that the *passive* undermining of rights is just as bad, but I am drawing the line at active participation for this argument.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I get why people are disappointed with Warren being asked to give the invocation at the inauguration - but do we really need to proclaim a "the sky is falling we've been betrayed moment" over the invocation - or save that energy for the real law changing policy battles yet to come? In the last 8 years - gays were locked out of every aspect of American governmental policy. Obama has said "I support equality for gay and lesbian americans" repeatedly. Most noteably in his election night speech.

Obama did select a counter to Warren's views in selecting Rev. Dr. Joseph E. Lowery to say the benediction. Lowery is a major supporter of gay rights and a progressive voice. We also are making history by having a GLBT Marching Band invited to be in the inaugural parade. I don't think it's inappropriate to say "lets not crucify the man over this one choice" because I can guarantee you it's hardly our last disagreement with even a moderately liberal presidential administration.

Can I talk to you about this - or would you rather not?

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

I agree. I am not sure if you're merely airing your opinion based on the topic (totally reasonable, and greatly appreciated, btw), but I want to be sure that you haven't misread what I stated.

I specifically stated that I don't believe he's throwing us under the bus, and really, Warren was only asked to speak, not be part of the Cabinet. He's not going to be setting policy.

My beef is that there are other, better choices Obama could have made —choices who are also Christian and conservative that haven't done the active harm against citizens of this country (not just the GLBT community, but to women as well).

I think it's great that Obama invited a GLBT marching band, and Lowery, but that doesn't somehow cancel out the poor choice in Warren.

Again, I agree with the general idea of your reply. The sky is *far* from falling, and I still have hope, but if the first deed shows a lack of consideration, people have a right to be disappointed. Unfortunately it will also make some folk much more suspicious going forward.

The idea of the protest isn't to say "Burn the witches!", but rather "hey, these are the people who are affected by the actions of this fellow, and we're disappointed in your choice."

But you're right, there are a lot of people whom I think may be a bit quick to anger. I hope they take a step back, breathe, and reassess.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I was airing my opinion on the topic. Some folks today were being awfully reactive. thats all i was responding to. As politically divided and diverse as our country is - the President is never going to make choices that please everyone. It's simply impossible. People say he could have asked the openly gay Episcopal Archbishop from Vermont to speak - but that would have set off ever conservative in the country. and basically people were saying - pissing off the conservatives is totally okay. It's not like we elected a gay man into the white house - we elected a centrist black man who spoke up against gay marriage during the campaign. We'd best get used to the gay rights laundry list not being at the top of his list of things to keep in mind. (as if it ever was?)

Protesting every decision Obama makes we disagree with a march to city hall is going to lose momentum. And honestly - its not like he gave Warren a cabinet post - he asked him to give a prayer at his inauguration. and a great deal of Americans (whether we agree or not) get a lot of power from thoughful prayer. It's not like Warren is going to pray for gays to be deported from the United States - he'll pray for unity and for leadership from our young, new president. and thats a prayer I think we can all get behind.

Thanks as always for a reasoned conversation Christopher - sorry that it got out of hand elsewhere on this post. Some boys don't know when to stop typing.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

It's all good, babe.

While I agree with your statement that we can't protest over every non 100% PC pro-tehgheyagender, I do believe that the inauguration is meaningful, in that it sets the tone for the next 4 (8??) years. I'd like to start off on the right foot.

[danthered.livejournal.com]

You're right, it's an outrage and Obama doesn't owe the "christian" "right" anything. And it's difficult to imagine Obama using the present justifications to defend a choice of, say, David Duke to participate in his inauguration. But this affront is relatively limited in scope and real effect, and we'd cut off our noses pointlessly if we prematurely give up hope based just on this. At this point, I think the damage would be far more real and lasting, far less symbolic and transient, if Obama were to rescind the invitation and pick somebody else.

As to a protest march...well, h'mm. If it were large enough it might raise and maintain visibility...what do you think of the idea circulating for inauguration attendees to turn their backs on Warren?

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

Well, this is why I floated the idea. I was in fact soliciting feedback on the idea (something that many people missed). I also agree with your statements. As I said above, I don't think he's throwing us under the bus, but I do think this is a poor choice, and it seems there are many others who agree. I simple show of people who have been affected by Warren's actions could be an effective way of saying "hey, this could be done better", rather than "burn the witches!!!111oneone".

As to the fallout of rescinding the invitation, I thought of that, and I believe you're right, but at the same time I think there should be a way to show our disappointment. He'll be labeled as a flip-flopper, and far worse. As for alternatives, the whole "back turning" thing is another viable option, the only problem I see with that is the limited audience who would participate and see it.

[notdefined.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what a proper response might be. Turning backs on Warren during this event might be interpreted as turning backs on Obama as well. That would be very unfortunate.

[romach35.livejournal.com]

I read about this, this morning on the UK news here. I truly hope he doesn't turn out to be the kind of guy who has said anything to get elected and then goes and breaks all his promises. I thought things were going to change for the better for my friends in the USA.

[notdefined.livejournal.com]

It has been over 24 hours now and the roar has dimmed a bit. I was glad to see this post as it was an outlet for people to voice their opinions. Unfortunately some comments degraded to the level personal attacks and arrow slinging which was unnecessary. This is a topic that for many, especially those of us in Califorinia who were recently married, is like an open sore and people like Warren just keep putting salt in it. Those who want us to just pass it off are simply on the outside looking in. I know that if my marriage is ultimately dissolved by the courts, it will be very difficult for me to maintain my christian values and not go out on a screaming rampage looking for blood. But that does not make it right. We have been hurt many times out here, but this time was one of the worst and holding that creature in front of us is like a kick to the groin. But, I will hold out and keep my mouth shut and wait for the results.

The last thing we need to do right now is attack each other and fire personal insults. This is when we need to give each other support. An offering of an olive branch (or olive oil if you are a foodie) or an apology would not be a bad thing and shows just how big we are as men. I, for one am sorry if anything I have said has caused offense, not because of differing views, because that is my right, but if anything I wrote was interpreted as a personal assault. It was not intended. Let's reset the clock, eh?